Using a Website to Grow Your Podcast (Coaching Call)

Hey everybody, this week's episode is a little bit different. It's a coaching call I did with a client named Scott. Scott Cowen. He runs a podcast called explore Washington state. It's part of a greeter website about Washington. The podcast publishes three to four times per week and he wants to grow his audience and potentially. Increase his output to five times So I'm trying this new format where I make a coaching call alive with permission. So listening as I give Scott advice about SEO website improvements and how to point his enormous Instagram following to the show. The top takeaways as you'll listen and hear are that you should have a good website with an easy to speak URL. You should optimize title and descriptions. And you should. Instead of growing your podcast directly, which we've talked about on this podcast, how to kind of do that. Grow your newsletter and social media followings and share the show with those audiences. I think that advice works. Especially well for Scott because of how big his Instagram following is that might not work for everybody. And one more thing before we get into the interview is I'm doing a lot more. Podcast or podcaster. Coaching now I have a 12 week program designed to help podcasters. Get their first $10,000. So if you are interested in that, check your app or the show notes over at make money, pod.com/two 15, there will be a, an application. To see if we might potentially be able to work together. So if you like what you hear and you think that, uh, I could help you out. Head on over to that make money pod.com/two 15, but for now let's get to the intro and then the interview Here on make money podcasting.

Scott, why don't you tell us, so tell us a little bit about your podcast, the target audience, how long you've been doing it, uh, and then we can get into, uh, some of the things that you're struggling with. Great. Thanks Joe. So the Exploring Washington Podcast, Washington State podcast, I can't even say my own show. What the heck, Anyway, uh, we started the show back in May of 2020. Uh, initially we started doing one episode a week, and then in early 2021 we started with two, and now we're up to three to four a week. We just released our hundred 85th. Wow. So currently the way it's set up is that we have, uh, Mondays we talk to people in the music business. We, Wednesdays is kind of catchall businesses, authors, hikers, things like that. And then in Fridays, food and drink. So our, our audience is people who are interested in hearing about, interesting people doing things in Washington state, finding out places to go, things to see, new music, to listen to. So if you're interested in, uh, learning more about what's happening around the state, that's our, that's our target audience. Nice. I like that. Especially cuz, I mean, Washington State is kind of prolific for putting out popular band, at least when I came of age. I, a lot of bands came from, uh, that I listened to came from the Seattle area. There's uh, there's been a handful of 'em. Yeah, right. Um, that's awesome. And it kind, it's cool that you have them themed. Right? So like, Music Mondays, um, then business on Tuesdays and Fridays, Food and Drink. People are looking to. Find something, uh, fun to do on a Friday evening. So I like that a lot. Um, now you're up to three to four per week. That is a lot of content, uh, and kudos to you for doing that. I usually recommend. Well, I, I, I do two episodes per week and I might go to three episodes per week. Um, people who are members of, I guess as we record this, um, maybe by the time this comes out, I will be at three episodes per week, but members of the creator crew know when I'm, I'm thinking about there. Um, so. Let's, So, okay, so this keeps you very busy. What, um, what, uh, made you start the show? I guess let's, let's talk about that for, for a hot minute. Sure. Uh, so the show is a spinoff of our website, Explore Washington State, which is a website full of content mirroring what the podcast does, just in written format. And I thought it would be, uh, more interesting for me. Then writing articles to sit down and have conversations with people, that, for me, is a better use of my abilities. Yeah. And so it was to supplement the, the written content on the, on the website and covid. Cause we weren't getting out to go see things. Yeah. So we could sit remotely like you and I are doing and have a convers. Nice. That's, that's really cool. Um, and is this a, a full-time gig for you? Is this a side hustle? Is it a hobby? It is my full-time non-paying job. Nice. I have a, I have another business that I run that, uh, keeps the lights on for everything. Uh, we've been doing explorer since, in some capacity, since 2010, so this is more than a decade now. It's morphed over that. Um, my, my interest, my focus is really is the podcast. My daughter handles the website in our social channels and all of that, and then I am the person who does the, uh, guest outreach, um, recording the shows. We have somebody that does light editing, and then I'm also the one that's supposed to be promoting the show. And well, honestly, I don't do a very good job of. Gotcha. Yeah, I mean that's, that's one of the tougher things, right, is uh, when you have a podcast, so much effort goes into getting an episode out that like, you kind of wanna move on to the next one once it's published. Um, but as we were talking about in the pre-show, um, it sounds like your biggest struggle is, is audience growth. Is that right? Yes. I, I mean, I think, isn't there, there's probably not a podcaster who doesn't want more listeners, right? I mean, Right. You know, that, that stat seems to be the holy grail, at least But I don't want it to be the north star of what we're doing. But I do want it to expose our content to more people, because I think given the, the variety of con, So let me ask you this question before I go further. Yeah. Since we have these siloed categories, So you might really be interested in what we're talking about on Mondays. Like you want, you wanna hear me talk to, you know, Mark picker of the screaming trees? You're like, That's cool, I wanna listen to that. But you could care less that we're talking to an author on Wednesdays and then Friday's food and drink, and you're like, Eh, man, okay, whatever. So are we hurting ourselves by having such a wide variety of topics? Yeah. So that's, that's really interesting. That's a really interesting question. Um, I don't, if this kind of goes back to. Why did you start the podcast, right? So if I'm talking to people who wanna start a podcast, I always think, Why? What problem are you solving, Right? Mm-hmm. And then that is the guiding light for your content and how you're gonna monetize and how you're gonna grow. And if. If why you started the podcast is to get people interested in Washington state and learn about things that are going on there. Um, no, I, I don't think you're, you're shooting yourself in the foot cuz the thing is right, like, I mean like stuff you should know is a huge podcast, but they put out four episodes a week, uh, or five episodes a week. They do their two main episodes. They do two short episodes. And then on Saturdays they resurface old episodes and stuff. You should know, select. So if people are subscribed, they can choose whether or not they want to listen, um, to a particular episode. So I think more content is probably a variety, like a good variety. Um, where do you host the podcast? It's host zone bus. Okay, cool. So, um, one thing that I've, I've kind of experimented with doing, uh, is on Casto, you can create these series, like you can create like a podcast network sort of, um, and, and you can have these discreet feeds for each category that then I'll filter into a main feed, like the incomparable does this too. Um, so like you could have. Um, explore Washington State Music Mondays as a se, as a separate feed, uh, and then, uh, food and drink Fridays as a separate feed, but then they both go to your main feed. Um, that's an structural change. I don't think that'll help you get more listeners. It's just kind of more things to manage. But if you are worrying about, Let me about ask about that though. Yeah. So if somebody listens to Music Monday Yeah. And somebody listens to, and two people listen to Food Friday. Yeah. Does that mean that the show would show three listeners? Uh, it de so the way Casto does it mm-hmm. Yes. You could see an aggregated listener download, like listener or downloads numbers. Okay. And then you could break it down by feed and by, um, and by episode. That's intriguing actually. Right. So it, it, yeah, it's, it's interesting it feel, I podcast networks in general probably don't work for most people, but in this case, you know, if you wanted, if you are putting this time and effort into a bunch of these kind of discrete categories that serve as in like this overall show, then I think a, like a quote unquote network could work. Um, but as far as audience growth, I think there's probably a few things. Um, that might help a little bit more. Uh, so first of all, um, you use Buzz Sprout. Uh, are you publishing the episodes on the website? This is where I have to admit that we are falling down 80% of the time. We are super, The intention is yes, and, and the intention is that each episode gets, its. Post, you know, you know, explore Washington State slash episode 1 31. Mm-hmm. and content there. I accomplish that if I'm lucky 20% of the time. Okay. So I think that could be a main driver of growth for you. And I, I, I know it's a lot of work, and I know this because I don't do it myself. Uh, I have, I have a VA who does it. Um, so she basically, once I record these episodes, I write the description and the title. I might have to give my editor some notes, but after that, I don't touch these episodes again. They go to my editor, my editor uploads it back to Dropbox. My VA takes it from there, um, and she uploads it to the website. Now, the way I have it set up right is I ha I have to publish on my website in order for the new feed or for an order for a new episode to go public, right? So I'm using WordPress and I'm using Casto. And I'm using cast's WordPress plugin. And so when I publish a new episode in WordPress, that is how my feed is updated. Um, but I think having this canonical link for people to go to, um, makes it shareable, right? Cause otherwise people are just trying to share in, in whatever app they use. And if they're sharing it through Apple Podcasts, right now you're alienating. Um, Like slightly less than half of the United States, but like 70% of the world, um, who don't use Apple devices. Um, or, or even worse, like if I share using Overcast, like that's probably like 10% of podcast listeners at best. Um, whereas if you say, yeah, go to, uh, um, explore Washington state.com/ 1 64 and then you could share the episode, get the show notes. Now people are maybe looking at other episodes that, that they wanna check out, or you have the subscribe buttons, um, right on, on the episode page. Uh, so I think that that's always the number one thing I recommend people do. Uh, and if, if you don't do that, at the very least you can have a, um, So you have slash podcasts, right? Yes. But maybe, uh, I'm not sure if bus sprout, I, I'm gonna assume they do cuz they're like a pretty modern, um, they're pretty modern and in fact, I recently interviewed, um, Alvin Brook, who is the head of marketing, uh, over there, so you can check that episode out as well. Um, we talk about starting a podcast, but so Buzzsprout is like pretty on top of things. Do they have a playlist widget, like a playlist thing that you can embed on your website? No, they do not. No, they do not. Interesting. At least Let me, let me, let me re-answer that. Yeah. I am not aware that they do. And I believe I would've found it if it was an option. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. If you were looking for it, I, I imagine that'd, I'd like, I'd like to ask you a question though. Yeah. Yeah. So you said, you know, explore Washington State slash 1 63, right? Or whatever. Yeah. I have heard in the past though, that the. For, for SEO purposes, wouldn't it be? So what's the, am I trading off here? So like, I do like the way on your show, you're like, you know, you know, slash one episode, you know, 1 25, whatever. It's super easy to remember. We've named ours episode dash 1 25. Mm-hmm. doesn't mean I can't go in and rename 'em all right? So, but to me, am I losing something in the s. Yeah, so this is important, right? Um, people will be able to go to how I built it slash 2 0 8 for the show notes, but that is going to redirect people to something that says like how I built it slash live dash coaching slash grow dash podcast. Um, so I have a redirect in place for the number, um, that will then take you to something that is more SEO friendly for the url. That's a great question cuz you're right. The URL does need to have like your, the key words that you're trying to jam on and rank for. Uh, and a number won't do that, but the number serves. So, uh, the, the number is driven by, um, a redirect. So let me ask you this, what are you using for the website? Uh, WordPress. Okay, cool. So there's a few plugins. Um, that you can use for redirect. My favor is redirection. It's free, it's very simple. Um, and, and you can, gosh, I, so that's the one that I use most of the time. There's another one that I think is called Quick Redirect, uh, where you can actually create the redirect on the page, but redirection. Um, redirection is a good one, right? Because it, it has its own page. In the WordPress admin, you grab the, the full link, right? The perma link for, for the post or the episode. Um, or even, right? If we're, if we're doing this, you can get like the, the Buzz Sprout, um, page, right? Cuz that's creating a page for each, uh, Those for each limited though, with what you can do with them. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I'm gonna recommend that you create the page on, uh, on the WordPress site. I'd like to ask you another question though, and this is SEO related too. So we do our show differently than, than how you described it. You, you said you publish it and then that's what pushes out these syndication. Yeah, we, our episodes go live at midnight on the date of publication. And so that Buzz Sprout page that's created for each episode is technically Google would think that was the original content versus Right. A show. A show page. We. Right. Am I overthinking that? Is that, am I, am I getting in? Oh, a, a little bit. Um, okay. I mean, I'm, So I'll just straight up say I'm not an SEO expert here, but if you, uh, in this case, the canonical link is, is whatever you're going to want it to be, because they're not exactly the same, right? Mm-hmm. the Buzz Sprout page basically serves as. A way to push your episodes to Spotify and Apple Podcasts and all the other podcast, uh, directories. Right, Right. Um, if you're creating this page on explore Washington state.com, and that's where you are sending people, that's the canon. And then there's a lot more content, right? You've got the show notes, you've got transcript, um, or transcript world Yes. Section. Yeah. In a transcript section. Um, Then if you send people there, then that's going to be the, the canonical link for, uh, for the episode. All right. Um, so I, I think transcripts too are, are, are helpful. They are expensive. Um, I have them for, for my episodes. Uh, but you know, they're gonna help with the, with the SEO juice as well, right? Because some things that are stated, I mean, this is really good though. Your show notes are very good. There's, it's, it's basically a blog post. Um, and so that's providing good content as well. So that's something you're doing very well, that a lot of podcasters don't do. Um, is that, is that, and I think that's really good. Uh, so. The O So, okay, so first of all, um, definitely get a page on explore Washington state.com for each episode. Um, there's like a, there's a few ways you can automate this, but you're also like doing the writing. So I would, I would recommend if you're gonna put time somewhere, definitely do that. There are services too, I mean, Again, if this is, like, this is your full time not paid job. I don't know what kind of budget you have, but, um, I use a service called Pod Reacher to, to turn some of my bl my episodes into blog posts. Was that pod reacher? Pod reacher, Yeah. Um, I'll, uh, yeah. P o d. R e a c h e r.com. I'll put it in the show notes. I'll send that to you separately, but, All right. Um, yeah, I'll put that link in the show notes for everybody else. Um, so yeah, so, and they do a really nice job. Um, the other thing I would do here is, uh, so you have, I'm looking at, uh, episode 1 64, uh, Monica Guzman, Seattle author, episode 1 64. Mm-hmm. I would. Absolutely make this title something different, more clickable. Um, maybe you talked, let's see, she's a mother of two. I never thought of it that way. Um, how to have fearlessly curious conversations. Um, okay. So, uh, I would probably have something like this, right? Where it's, um, uh, how, how to have curious conversations. In a, in a, um, gosh, what's the word I'm looking for? In a, in a, a polarized time with Seattle author Monica Guzman. Right. Uh, okay. Because now you're putting the problem that you're talking about in the front of the title. Um, and then that's, that's also gonna help with. Maybe people who are just browsing podcast apps, um, maybe they don't know who Monica Guzman is, but yeah, I totally wanna know, like, I'm like afraid to talk about whatever. I'm afraid to talk about polarizing topic of the day. Yankees. Yeah. I'm afraid to talk about the Yankees with my close friends cuz I'm afraid they're Red Sox fans or whatever. Right. Um, so. Yeah, that's, that is, is a problem that solved. And then you're still highlighting that she's a Seattle author, right? That she's a, a Washington State author. Um, so those are a couple of things that I could do. And then I don't know what your descriptions look like, uh, for, for what you put into, to Buzz Sprout. So here's the, the, the, the honest truth because anyone this listening to this is, you know, looking to improve themselves. So I can, you know, open myself up. I typically write those right before I fall asleep. The night that the episode's gonna go live at midnight in a dead panic. And I truly am. I, I don't like when I'm writing, I'm, I, I don't, The fact that I'm, you're looking at them and I'm not cringing is, is sheer will power, power on my part. And I understand logically though, that that's something that somebody who's stumbling across the podcast is gonna read and go. Mm. Or maybe they, you know, or maybe they're listening to it. So I know that we need to spend more time crafting a more compelling reason to listen to the show. Cause I think the shows. Are better than the descriptions in most cases. Okay. Yeah. I'm not trying to say the show's amazing, but I think the show is more informative and entertaining than, than what I'm writing. Yeah. And I mean, that's like, uh, that's an art form. Like it's really hard. Right. And I, I struggle with it too. I don't think I do a very good job a lot, a lot of times. Um, I. But I mean, the, the description you have here, just like reworking it a little bit, right? Guzman transparent. Um, am I, first of all, am I saying her last name right? You are great. Or at least you're pronouncing it like I would pronounce it. So we're both wrong together or perfect. Correct. Okay, perfect. Um, transparently left leaning was raised by two Mexican immigrants. I voted for Trump, right? So, uh, you could say, you know, um, It's, you can, you can put that as the first line. Um, this, then this inspired her to write a book about how to have conversations in these dangerously divided times. Um, cuz that, I mean, especially like Trump is a very polarizing character, so this is going to get people. In intrigued and interested straight away. Right? And, and then it's like, oh, but like he, he wants to build a wall. And these Mexican immigrants voted for him. And then how did they raise a, like a left leaning daughter, Like why is she left leaning when they're so MAGA or whatever? Um, so like, you know, just a little something to, to spark. That curiosity. Um, I think as people are, are scrolling, um, or searching, uh, then they'll find, you know, there they'll be more, um, likely to click on that. Uh, so those are optimizations that you can make to your episode, titles, descriptions, et cetera. All right. Um, that's not the whole thing though, right? Cause you still need to get it in front of other people. Um, and. The best advice, which this is timely cuz I just saw it recently, is, um, don't necessarily try to grow your podcast, grow your newsletter, grow your Facebook group, grow your Instagram or Twitter or TikTok following, and then promote your podcast to those audience who have opted into following you in those places. Um, and I think that's really good advice because people might. Always listen, but you have, you have an audience where you could put the show in front of them when a new episode comes out. Are you aware of any ways to track conversions from, let's say, Instagram to listening to a podcast episode? Uh, the, the best, the best way to do it probably is to create a short link, um, with, they're called utm. Um, codes, Is that the right word? Yeah, yeah. The just, it's like basically stuff at the end of the URL that's like Right source Instagram or whatever. Right? Instagram, like, uh, Twitter automatically adds these, right? This is why they convert everything to their short link because they wanna know where people are going and while people are clicking. I wanna be surprised if Instagram all, Well, Instagram's a little different, right? Because they're not putting links in places. You can do it in your stories now. Um, But yeah, like using those UTM um, metrics, uh, would be the best way to do it. And then you would go to Google Analytics and, and see, okay, Instagram is, is killing it, or like TikTok is killing it, or Facebook is not. Even though they're kind of, are they, Do they have a place in Washington? No, I'm thinking of Amazon and or Microsoft. Well, Facebook has, uh, a small campus in Washington. Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Um, that's so, that's so interesting. Right? Like I feel like Washington is like the Silicon Valley outside of Silicon Valley. Uh, I think it was, I think we have the nickname like of the Silicon Forest or something like that, you know? Uh, I like that when you think about it. Amazon's here. Uh, Microsoft is here. Nintendo, I did not have known Nintendo was there. Wow. Fun fact, I used to be a game counselor for an Nintendo back in the day when this, the Super nes, uh, first came out to the shores of the United States. Yeah. Wow. That's how old I am Um, That's awesome. Um, and um, yeah, yeah. We have a, you know, King County where Seattle is based. You know that that region's tech workers galore. Yeah. In fact, tech and I saw a stat last year that there was more people with the title of software engineer. And worked in retail. Oh, wow. Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Um, that's really cool. That's a fun fact. Okay, so, so, um, so here's another thing, right? Uh, that, that you could do, I think, to try to grow your audience. Um, interviews are fun people also like short form. Content, like short form tidbits, take away content, things like that. Um, I, I, uh, had a coaching client, um, that had a Recipe of the day podcast, and she would basically, it was a short form podcast and she was repurposing her blog content. Um, so cuz she had a recipe blog. So she would pick one of those recipes, publish it as a blog, as a, a podcast episode. Then she would put the player on that recipe page so she'd have like, listen or read on, Right. Um, so this is, especially cuz like the other thing you told me you might wanna do is, is try to do more episodes per week. These shorter form. Podcasts, maybe that's just you, uh, are easier content for a lot of people, right? Cause then you don't have to book and do the schedule dance, uh, and do more editing. And maybe you can repurpose old blog posts and then embed the podcast episode on and already well ranking page with subscribe buttons. Um, because I mean, you've got your, the, if the domain is over 10 years old, you've got good domain authority, right? So you get good website traffic. Of 30,000 sessions a month. Okay. So that's, I mean, it's better than my personal site. Guess that's better than any of my sites get, actually, um, this podcast is the most popular content that I make. Um, and, and so, so yeah, that, so that's really good, right? So you wanna leverage, you wanna leverage that, right? And, um, I know, I, I know we're like bleeding into this other struggle that you have, but repurposing that content could be a good way to. Surface old content, get people to listen maybe instead of read. Cuz people do prefer to read, uh, listen instead of read, especially when they're commuting. Um, mm-hmm. and then get, get to more episodes. Um, so let's say I, oh, I, I half lost my train of thought in there, but we were talking about repurposing how you can grow, getting in front of, of, um, Repurposing that content to get in front of different audiences. I have a question. Yeah. And it's something we're not doing. Something I hear people talk about and basically, you know, the intro, you know, our, our, we have no calls to action on the podcast. Mm-hmm. there's no calls to subscribe, there's no calls to sign up for the newsletter. There's nothing. We have a newsletter that we send out to about 2,500 people once a week. Um, that talks, that basically references the podcast episodes that we published that week, inter references articles that we've published that week, or every now and then I pull something up that's relevant, that's, you know, timely, you know, more evergreen. Would you recommend a second newsletter for just podcast listeners? And if so, what would be the reason that they would want. Newsletter. Yeah. So I think if you are asking that, then probably no, but I don't know what you're using for your, your, uh, newsletter provider convert kit. Okay, great. So, um, So what you could do is have a call to action that is, Hey, do you, you know, do you not wanna miss an episode? Do you wanna get a digest of everything that we put out and pick the favorite thing that you wanna listen to or read? Sign up for our newsletter. It goes out every. Monday, Sunday, Friday. Friday. But yeah, it goes out every Friday. It tells you everything that we covered this week, you can sign up over at and then have like a, I would say subscribe is probably a good one, right? So explore Washington state.com/subscribe. Have the form there, tag them as podcast listener, um, or even like, have make a, a separate form. You'll know if they signed up from that form. It's cuz they're a podcast listener. Um. And then you could also on that page have your subscribe buttons, right? So, hey, while you're here, why don't you, uh, give us a little subscribe in whatever your podcast player is? Um, but that's a really clear call to action. It promotes the website and then it gets people on your mailing list, which then, because here's the thing, either people aren't checking their podcast player every day, or they are skipping titles that maybe don't sound enticing to them. But no matter what you're, they're gonna see you in, they're at least gonna see your. In their inbox. Right? And then if you say, Hey, in this episode, like we talked about like a very, a liberal woman who has two Mexican immigrant parents who voted for Trump, this is a story that you absolutely wanna hear, right? Um, and so I said liberal, but it said left-leaning. I don't, that's not me editorializing, that's just the word I grabbed. Um, um, So, uh, so again, this is a way you're getting people into a place where you are seeing them and understanding them a little bit better, and then you can also reach out to them and get feedback. Hey, what do you wanna hear about? Um, because podcasting feels like a very one way street, and any way to make that a two way street is going to give you an advantage. Okay. Cool. So can, do we have time for me to ask you one question? Yeah, I was just gonna say we're coming up on time. Why don't we do one more question? Perfect. All right. You have any recommendations of how to get the guest to share? The content that they are, they were on. Yeah. This is, this is tough. Um, this is tough because not everybody's going to wanna be inclined to do it. Uh, people who are sharing a lot probably have their schedules like very, Their social sharing schedule is very, uh, uh, tight and curated or manicured, I guess. Um, but here's what I do, right? Everybody who comes on my show, you'll see this, right? Because you, uh, you've signed up with my Calendarly link. Uh, when my show publishes, you automatically get an email saying, Hey, Scott just wants to let you know your, your episode is out. You can find it at how I build slash two 80. I would love and appreciate if you shared that. Um, so there's a one nudge, usually people are, I mean, some people are super generous. Like, they're like, Yeah, I'll totally share it. Um, the other thing I do is that same. Uh, I use an app called Tweet Hunter to schedule all of my tweets and on published days at 1126 to make it look real I I have a three tweet thread. Hey, new episode of the podcast is out this week. I talked to, I tag guest name, um, like their Twitter handle cuz right. I asked for that too. Um, Right. We talked about whatever, whatever you can listen here. And then I have like in, in the members only special, we talked a portion, we talked about this. Thanks to our sponsors, this is good for. Yeah. If they're tagged, the very least they'll do is retweet it, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and same thing, like if you tag them on Instagram or something like that, the very least somebody will be willing to do is, is share it to their story. Cuz that's like a one button push for them, right? Um, And then similarly, my, my sponsors will also usually like or retweet that tweet. Um, Okay. Which, uh, that's not advice I usually give out cuz usually I'm putting the cart before the horse. Well, if you get sponsors they'll share it, but like, that's not always the case. And you need to point those that you're, you're, you're, you're showing the sponsors. That you're appreciating them responding you. I, I like that. But yeah, totally. So, um, so those are the, those are the two things that I do. What I've seen done where I could be better, right. Is um, also send the graphics, cuz my VA also creates a couple of graphics, um, attached to them. Hey, like here's some artwork that you could share on social media if you want. Um, But that's gonna require them to create a post. Right. I would, I would sooner create the post myself and tag them in it, and then they could share it that way. So that email that you send out when the episode goes live, is that through calendarly? No, That is, uh, a little how the sausage gets made. Right. I'm a developer. Uh, so I wrote a plugin that sends the email when the episode publishes. Nice. Yeah. Um, So, so it's, that's more automated for me. Um, but you, let's see, if you, if you know that you will always publish exactly whatever 10 days after the interview, then you could set it up through calendar. Right, because Cal Lee does send those follow ups. Otherwise, what I would probably do is just create a reminder on publish day, like publish post email person. And then use like a text expander snippet, full disclosure text expander as a sponsor of this podcast. Um, and this is an unsolicited plug. I use Text Expander and I do love it Nice. I do love it. So great. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, and so, you know, have a text expander snippet that has just kind of like the stuff I just said. Right? Um, okay. I mean like if you use like some of, some email clients will have like templates too. Um, but I generally like text expander the best. Okay. Um, yeah, so you, you usually, you ask for it and that will increase your chances. Um, For me, I've heard like 25%. For me, it's closer to half probably. Um, cause again, I'm like already giving them the link and I'm sharing like, and I'm tagging them on Twitter or whatever social media they're on. Um, and so that makes the share a little bit easier for them. So if you're, if you, for example, let's just use this conversation. Yeah. If, when you publish it, you're gonna tag us on Twitter, but would you, do you tag on all social channels? Um, would you just do Twitter? I don't post the show that often to other social channels. Um, okay. So for, for me, it's Twitter. That's where most of my audience is. I'm on Instagram, but like, that's mostly like me sharing pictures of cigars and my kids. Um, you know, two things that go hand in hand, I guess. Photos, kids with cigars, right? No, definitely not that Each photo is discreetly a cigar or a child. Okay. All right. Just clarifying question there. Yes. Um, so Twitter is definitely the place for me. That's where my biggest following is. Um, and that's like you recommend we do this where our biggest following is a hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Um, and if you, you know, and if you have like, so feels like maybe Instagram, is that for you or would it be Facebook? We have like 86,000 followers on Instagram and uh, 20,000 on Facebook. That's so many. Yes. Both places definitely do that. And like mean, like, so like Twitter we have like 500. Right? Okay. So Instagram for short. And then Instagram allows you to automatically post over to Facebook, right? Cuz they're the same company. Correct. And if you, if you convert to a business account, if you haven't done that already. We, We do. Yeah. Okay. So you can use, so you can do advanced scheduling. Um, okay. So like if you're batching episodes, right, you can use. Like Buffer or Hubler or one of the other million Tailwind, I think Tailwind to, Yeah, to, to schedule those out. And that's exactly what I do. On on, on podcast batching days. I'll record these episodes, I'll put them in folders and then I will. Write the titles and the intros, like it's usually Thursdays. I'll write the titles and the in intros, I'll record the bumpers. I'll write the social media and I'll put it in Tweet hunter. Um, okay. So I'm like kind of in that mode doing it, churning through that, and then all of that goes out to either the robots that will will publish it or the people, my team, who will do it. Um, so totally recommend that. Um, and with Instagram, I mean, I don't know how effective audiograms really are. The only stats I've heard about audiogram, which is like those video clips mm-hmm. um, the only real stats I've heard from them come from companies that specialize in making audiograms. So like that's, uh, yeah. Like five outta or four outta five doctors say smoke or whatever. Um, Okay. you know, like, so. But what you could do instead is, and, and, uh, is, uh, record a quick video, Right? And say like, Hey, I just, Or if you're using Riverside, ask your guest, Hey, is it okay if I record the video on release part of this on Instagram? All right. Right. Cause that's not extra work. Right. The thing I just said is extra work, but mm-hmm. if you just. And, and Rivers, because you use Riverside, right? Is that what you said? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So Riverside, uh, okay. Again, also full disclosure, they respond to this podcast in the past. Um, um, I swear I own like most of the, when I do this, it's cuz I already use the tools. Right? Um, so, uh, but they're pretty effective at like picking good clips or screenshots, right? So, um, I would ask. I don't agree with you. I don't agree with that. Everyone just looks awful. Oh really? It's like, it's like the screenshot will be, You look great. I'm staring into space. I look okay. You're staring into space. It's like, can we cut and paste together? Yeah. Then we got one. Right. Totally. Um, but like, I don't, So, but they also make it pretty easy to clip the interview. Yeah, I haven't played with that. Uh, I haven't extensively, I tried it out a little bit, but, um, But it's like built in now, right? So mm-hmm. when you're done, you know, may what I, I like to keep a pen and paper next to me, so like I look at the time. If you, if someone says something prolific and I'm like, I, I write down the time. And, um, and I've noticed your hand hasn't moved this entire episode, so nothing prolific has been said by your past. I apologize. That's, You said something I wrote down. Uh, but, uh, this is, so this is me like doling out advice, Right. Usually went from, uh, I thought, Oh, yes, that was a good thought that I had. That doesn't feel very good to me. uh, Um, but that might be, that might be, again, this is a little bit extra work, but if you're gonna leverage 86,000 followers on Instagram, um, even if we play like the 1% role, that's like a good chunk of people who are, who might come over. But, but see, here's the thing that's. Not even close to what we're converting over. It's if, if we put something on Instagram for the podcast, we're lucky to get like two people. So what, so what are you putting over on Instagram? I'm not allowed to go to Instagram. That's my daughter's job, so she, I'm too old, so she says she cannot go look, so we'd have to go. I also feel too old for Instagram Yeah. Anyway, and that might be, and that might be also part of it though, is that the audience on Instagram is different than the audience for the podcast. Yeah. Maybe. And you know, Facebook's audience skews older. Mm-hmm. So I might experiment a little bit more over there. Right. Cuz you have quite a following over there too. But it probably depends. Uh, Instagram has straight said they're favoring video now. So if you. If you at least experiment here and there with video, um, either like a 32nd thing that you or your daughter records and puts in reels saying like, Hey, just had this great interview, like keep an eye out for it, blah, blah, blah. Or a clip that you, you're lifting from Riverside. Try it a couple of times and see what it does because sure, we're all slaves to the algorithm, um, on these sites. Instagram has capriciously decided that they want to do video. More video now, but, um, and then here's something that I'm, I'm going to work on this summer especially, um, is vertical short form video that I can share everywhere. So like TikTok, YouTube shorts, and Instagram reels. Um, Because again, this is something that if I carve out an hour and I either bring a change of shirt or just always wear the same shirt, uh, in these things, I can record a bunch of those and then schedule them out for, for a while. Um, and so short form video is. YouTubers will like long time YouTubers like Cgp Gray has said like, this doesn't work for him. But by and large I've heard that this is a great way to get yourself in front of new eyeballs, especially on TikTok. TikTok like really works with getting you in front of new people. So, um, this is a thing that I have fought because I don't like TikTok. For a number of reasons, but as I try to grow my audience and take this show and my podcast services to the next level, it's, I think it's at least something I'm willing to invest. Three months in, we'll say, so couple of hours. Record short, short form videos. Send them over to TikTok. Um, I might try to put 'em on AOL because that's my generation. Nice. Aol. Very good. Get those discs for free, free hour. I think I still have some Uh, I, I, I had, I was using them as coasters for a little while, you know, of, I think everybody was you know, I think that was, At least my, my circle of friends that would go over to their house and, Hey, Coaster. Oh, look at that free coaster. Um, very cool. Um, well, Scott, I, I hope this was helpful. Did you, There's some great takeaways. Thank you. Awesome. Um, I will, uh, I took some notes here in Notion, so I will summarize if, if you're listening to this part. You've heard the summary at the top of the show already. Um, but, uh, Scott, good luck. Uh, I will, um, I'll keep an eye on, on your socials and I'll subscribe to your show and, uh, I appreciate you coming on the show to do this live coaching session with me. Joe, thank you so much for taking the time. This was great. There's some great takeaways for me and I really appreciate your insight.

All right. Thanks for listening to my live coaching call with Scott. I hope you liked If you did let me know, leave us a rating and review in apple podcasts. Uh, and again, check the link in the description. If you think I can help you. On your journey to your first $10,000. With your podcast. Thanks again so much for listening. And until next time I can't wait to What you make